Ep. 14: Treat Others With Dignity Even if You Disagree

Guest: Lisa Keating from My Purple Umbrella

This amazing women tells the story of how she went from being a massage therapist with a gift for crafting to becoming an advocate for LGBTQ+ rights in WA state through her nonprofit, My Purple Umbrella. Ideas referenced in the show:

  • HB2661 Anderson- Murray Background
  • HIB details; HIB Resources from Tacoma Public Schools
  • Teaching conflict management for kids Pre-K through 5th grade--Kelso’s  Choice
  • SCDM - each school building has a committee that works on school-wide initiatives. It’s a great place to start if you want to make positive change happen in local schools.
  • Language changes over time, be patient with the process and also have grace for yourself and others

Timeless or Terrible: Tanning




Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Lisa: Check out My Purple Umbrella’s book club - the Queerest Book Club Ever - at King’s Books on the first Monday of each month. The book for March is Queer: a Graphic History by Meg-John Barker.
  • Annie: One Teacher in Ten, edited by Kevin Jennings and 50 Queers Who Changed the World by Daniel Jones.
  • Hope: YA books! Simon vs. the Homosapien Agenda by Becky Albertalli, None of the Above by I.W. Gregorio and If I Was Your Girl by Meredith Russo.

Ep. 13: The Environment Won’t Save Itself

Our EQ: How is the fight for environmental justice influenced by race and class?

Guests: Krystal Kyer & Melissa Malott

Environmental advocates Krystal (Puyallup Watershed Initiative) and Melissa (Citizens for a Healthy Bay) come by to talk about environmental justice, the disproportionate effects of industrial pollution on poor communities, and the environmental organizations working to keep Tacoma healthy. Other topics include:

  • The history of the environmental movement, including the creation of the National Parks by the white leisure class
  • The gatekeeping of the environmental movement by electric-car driving NIMBYs and how to take it back
  • The importance of urban trees!
  • Concerns about the Trump administration’s unwillingness and/or inability to understand science.
  • Find an environmental topic that you’re passionate about and work on it!  You’ll only stick with it if you’re heart’s in it.
  • Other things referenced in the episode:

** Since this recording, Kenny Coble was hired by Citizens for a Healthy Bay's new Environmental Justice Program

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Krystal: See Hope’s note about Green Drinks Tacoma!
  • Melissa: Buy reused and reusable stuff - don’t buy new stuff! We send so much to landfills and you shouldn’t need to wear fancy organic pants to be an environmentalist.
  • Annie: The EPA’s “Environmental Justice." PLUS Google “Zero Waste.”
  • Hope: Check out Green Drinks Tacoma - the first Thursday of the month.

Ep. 12: You Don't Have to Sell Wrapping Paper

Our EQ: How do we build a sense of community and family across economic, racial, and cultural differences?                                                        REMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIX

Guests: Sheree Cooks and Megan Clark

Former (beloved) guests Sheree and Megan return for a chat about the PTA, Tacoma’s Whole Child Initiative, social emotional (aka SEL, aka “soash emoash”) learning, and the heart that goes into our school-based services such as food and clothing banks. Other topics include:

  • ACES: take the survey here
  • Don't forget intersectionality that offsets or buffers some trauma!
  • The need for cultural awareness and understanding in official and unofficial school communication.
  • The importance of volunteering for charitable organizations and neighborhood schools year-round, not only at the holidays.
  • Megan’s plans for world domination via non-profit work.
  • Important deets about the PTA: it’s America’s largest student advocacy group.

Timeless or Terrible:

  • Baby Industrial Complex
  • Flat Bread

Do Your Fudging Homework

Ep. 11: More than a Flip Book: Interracial Relationships

Our EQ: How can we as white people be more supportive of and less basic about our friends in interracial relationships?

Guests: Anne Jones and Jamika Scott

The conversation meanders from what we love about Tacoma to joys and challenges of being in an interracial relationship to concerns about introducing significant others to family and unique experiences raising kids. It takes effort to get out of our bubbles and expose ourselves to others who are different from us. As Anne says, “If it’s not in your day-to-day, make a concerted effort” to interact with people who are different than you.  Things are moving, even if slowly.

Other topics include:

  • The peculiarities of Montana (the “You Do You” state).
  • Some challenges of raising interracial children
  • Intent vs. Impact of our words and actions
  • Supporting loved ones even when you can’t fully empathize with their experience

Do Your Fudging Homework

  • Anne: Deliberately expose your kids to diverse experiences and raise them to be kind.
  • Jemika: Watch Save the Last Dance and educate yourself about issues affecting POCs and not expecting them to educate you.
  • Annie: go on Oyez.org and read all about Loving vs. Virginia, the landmark Supreme Court case that ended state bans on interracial marriage and relationships.
  • Hope: Aziz Ansari’s Modern Romance, The Lovings: an Intimate Portrait, Multiracial Media, and #WhiteBae .

A Special Thank You to our Listeners

We wanted to thank each of our listeners for giving our podcast a chance. We appreciate the comments, feedback, and push back. Most of all, we love the ongoing conversations happening in cars, bars and living rooms about how we can all be less basic. 

Here are our top 3 most downloaded shows:

#3 “Shame Bell Your Gender Norms & Pumpkin Spice Yogurt”

From serious to sarcastic, in this episode we go ham with our shame bell. Shame, Shame, Shame, Shame, Shame. We've also never had more fun taste-testing artificially flavored pumpkin spiced foods and smacking our lips into a microphone.

#2 “Don't Send a Letter, Have a Conversation”

Sheree Cooks and Megan Clark bring the real talk as parents, community members, and community organizers. They challenge us to understand what it means to truly engaged with our families and communities--and they call on all of us to get more involved in our neighborhoods.

The most listened to episode yet....

#1 “Seeing and Being Seen”

A special thanks to Soneya Lund and Bernadette Ray for being our first guests on the show! Their honesty and candid commentary on what it means to be a woman of color set the tone for future episodes.


Here's to a better 2018! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Thank you for listening to the show and please share it with your friends and family!


2017 EOY Review: Bright Embers of Hope in a White-Hot Dump Fire

Our EQ: What the hell happened this year and how do we make sense of it?

From hijab wearing Barbies and the election of the first openly transgender legislator (Danica Roem) to Australia legalizing gay marriage via national referendum and Bey slayin in her maternity pictures, 2017 had many hopeful moments. We recall some of our pop culture highlights of the year.  In another segment called “Where Are They Now?” we catch up on the latest from women of the Alt Right and Roy Moore, the creep who won’t go away.  

Mentioned in the episode:

Timeless or Terrible:

  • Danskos   

  • Dressing up your pet   


Do Your Fudging Homework:


Ep. 9: Filet Mignon and A Bottle of Dom

Our EQ is: What role do race and class play in the food industry?

We’re joined by Corey Evans, culinary arts teacher at Lincoln High School and LHS alum.  He tells us about his adventures and misadventures in the food industry, especially high-end dining, from the eastside of Tacoma to the eastern seaboard.  He helps us dig into some serious issues, including the politics, the racial divide, and the pecking order in restaurant kitchens, the importance of truffle oil, and great places to dine in Tacoma (spoiler: Tibbitts at Fernhill).  Other topics of discussion:

Annie claimed there are recipes that are both vegan and gluten free. Evidence:

Timeless or Terrible:


Stinky Cheeses

Tatchos (tater tot nachos)


Do Your Fudging Homework:

Corey: don’t ask for substitutions on the menu unless you really really have to.

Annie: Eat at this amazing vegan cafe Quickie Too!

Hope: The Food Lab by J Kenji Lopez-Alt

Update: Since recording this episode Hope has subscribed to Blue Apron and @NerdFarmer is obsessed. If you decide to do it, use Hope or Corey as a referral. K thanx!


Ep. 8: #MeToo, Fake Apologies, and Supporting Survivors

Our EQ is: How does rape culture hurt everyone and how is the political climate shifting to support survivors and hold abusers accountable?

We begin by defining the term rape culture and process our way through the swamp that is this “trend” in white men being taken to task for the sins they've committed--abusing their power to sexual harass, assault and rape. How does rape culture hurt women? Other men? What’s the impact on children? How are celebrities protected by their status? HOW and WHY is the present political climate causing those protections for the rich and famous to break down? In this episode, we specifically focus on Roy Moore and Louis C.K., including their denials and half-baked apologies (and apologists).

Worth reading on the issue:

What it boils down to is this:

  • Fight all the elements of rape culture in our society.  
  • Don't be a creep.
  • Stop telling women what they could've/should've done in dangerous situations.
  • Call out your Bros when they are rape-y.
  • Believe victims of assault.

Continuing down the thread of White male mediocrity--Blake Shelton is certainly not the sexiest man in the world. How about Mahershala Ali? Or the Greek Men’s Water polo team







Timeless or Terrible meets Do Your Fudging Homework:

Teribless Landscape Quotes
White Lady Vision Quest
eat pray lvoe.jpeg

Episode 6: Passive Aggressive Wypipo

Our EQ this week: How can white women use their privilege to disrupt the culture of passive aggressive behavior and whitesplaining/mansplaining that emerge in many professional workplaces?

Episode Disclaimer: If any of the stories or examples in this episode seem familiar, it’s purely accidental, coincidental, and unintentional.  

Join Hope and Annie as they discuss the ways in which white women engage in passive aggressive communication. These IWLs rehash an amazing video by MTV's Decoded White People Whitesplain Whitesplaining and Hope learns a new word-- hepeating. As you listen, you'll certainly think of your own experiences with passive aggressive forms of workplace communication. 

Pop Critical Theory:

Today’s pop critical theory comes from the delightful intersection of sociology and linguistics - word blending.  White women love word blends as much as your one quirky uncle loves puns.  The IWL’s favorite word blend is obviously brunch - that’s breakfast plus lunch, natch - but we won’t wax poetic about waffles on THIS episode.  The practice of word blending has brought us such gems as mansplaining and whitesplaining, two terms that are invaluable in our quest to explain the nuance of interpersonal and professional communication in the workplace.  We have to give credit where credit is due - Rebecca Solnit coined “mansplaining” in her seminal essay-turned-book, Men Explain Things to Me.

Timeless or Terrible:


Trunk Shows

Do Your Fudging Homework:

Find on Facebook www.facebook.com/IWLpodcast

Follow us on on Twitter @IWL_Podcast

Episode 5: Don't Send a Letter, Have a Conversation

Today’s essential question is: how do we build a sense of community and family across economic, racial, and cultural differences?

Special Guests:

  • Sheree Cooks, Public Education Family Engagement Advocate and Community Member; Received the 2017 Gold Star Community Partnership Award from TPS

  • Megan Clark, Family Engagement Liaison

We cram so much into this 50 minute episode, it’s like a teacher’s bag(s) on a Friday - bursting at the seams. What’s the difference between parent involvement and parent engagement? How do schools build (authentic) cross-cultural bridges? Why does it matter that we use language  like “our school” rather than “my school” when we talk with parents and families? How do you balance your passion for your work and necessary self-care? How do we address the well-intended, color-blind teacher that raise our children to be empowered to fight systemic racism and color-blindness? Sheree and Megan break it down with painful, heartfelt, and sometimes hilarious anecdotes. These experiences are shared from their lens as parents. 

They will be back on the show to share more stories from the perspective of community partners, highlighting the successes and challenges of engaging community and families.  

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Megan: Get involved in your community. Talk about the work that is being done and connect organizations with those who are passionate about the work.
  • Sheree: Give where you can. Support programs that encourage community engagement. Participate in community events such as the Eastside Nature Walk on October 28.
  • Annie: Read the article “Family Engagement: Resource Roundup” from Edutopia

Like us on Facebook www.facebook.com/IWLpodcast

Follow us on on Twitter @IWL_Podcast

Episode 4: Shame Bell Your Gender Norms & Pumpkin Spice Yogurt

Our essential question is: what is gender and why does it matter?

Hope & Annie continue their conversation about gender norms. What happens when we reject them? How do we work on making our relationships more equitable? The IWLs hit on double standards for girls in school dress codes, how LGBT folks disrupt gender norms by sharing household chores, and the disproportionate amount of emotional labor female-identified folks tend to do in the workplace.

Today’s pop critical theory is deviance.  Deviance is behavior that violates social norms.  Deviance actually serves a really important purpose - if you deviate from the norm, it's often because you're figuring out your identity and finding a sub-group to belong to, which can be really empowering.  It can also be alienating, since you're separated from the group that sets the norms.  How are we rewarded when we deviate? How are we punished? How many people need to be deviant before it becomes the norm? Deep thoughts!



This episode we forgo our usual timeless or terrible conversation and opt for a Pumpkin Spiced themed segment where we actually taste PS themed foods from our favorite white lady store, Target. From poptarts to gum, listen to our lip-smacking reviews.

Spoiler: This is nasty






Do Your Fudging Homework:


Episode 3: Seeing, Being Seen, and the Panopticon of Life

Our essential question is: What does race, gender, and class  have to do with seeing and being seen?

This episode Annie & Hope are joined by two specials guests Tacoma personality Bernadette Ray and business woman Soneya Lund of the Saol Salon in Yakima. From racial coming outs to deconstructing white beauty standards, the ladies ring the “Shame Bell” on ridiculous standards that society tries to hold us to. These honesty, raw, and personal stories of the womanhood will touch you.

Today’s pop critical theory is the metaphor of the panopticon, originally conceived by white dude political philosopher Jeremy Bentham and his brother.  It’s basically a round prison so the guards in the middle can see prisoners, but the prisoners don’t know when OR IF they’re being seen.  Remember - it’s a metaphor!  But it was once built as an actual prison! What’s this have to do with us as women? As white, black, and brown women? How do (sometimes insidious) standards of beauty and conduct keep us in check?


Timeless or Terrible:

Do Your Fudging Homework:  

  • Hope: 2 Dope Queens comprised of Phoebe Robinson who wrote You Can’t Touch My Hair and Jessica William who has a new show The Incredible Jessica James on Netflix
  • Annie: Go Google image search Robert K. Merton’s “deviance typology,” then go down the sociology of deviant behavior rabbit hole on Wikipedia.  Spend a little time thinking about your own deviance #winkyface
  • Bernadette: give an authentic compliment to a woman of color
  • Soneya: Go read Girl in Translation by Jean Kwok

Find on Facebook www.facebook.com/IWLpodcast or follow us on on Twitter @IWL_Podcast

Episode 2: Fish Crackers and White Supremacy

Our essential question is: What is white privilege and why do we need to talk about it?

Defining privilege as unearned advantage or right based on group status, Annie and Hope breakdown examples of white privilege from shopping without receipts to traveling without being stopped. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there!  Privilege is systemic.  IWLs talk briefly about gendered and whitewashed toys, including where you can find some rad Barbies with afros (Etsy).  BONUS TRACK: other diverse Barbie-like dolls, because representation matters.


IWLs experiment with a new segment in the show called “pop critical theory.” Today's segment focuses on intersectionality. Intersectionality originally comes from feminist sociological theory and the work of Kimberle’ Crenshaw, who says that discrimination or criminal behavior against women can be targeted or intensified based on that woman’s race.  So intersectionality has the power to compound your oppression, BUT! It can also be a source of personal power, because it gives you the ability to stratify different groups, AKA be in more than one group at a time.

Articles mentioned in the episode that you should go read RIGHT NOW:


Timeless or Terrible: Annie and Hope weigh in on the staples of interchangeable white women everywhere.

Today’s topics--boot cuffs and the obsession with talking about generations (leave those millennials and their avocado toast alone).


Do Your Fudging Homework: Go read Tim Snyder’s book, “On Tyranny.”  It’s like pamphlet-small, no excuses.  Go Google pictures of the Panopticon so you can get an idea of what it looks like.  Go read up on the idea of the invisible or imaginary audience.  Take notes and prepare to discuss.

Find on Facebook www.facebook.com/IWLpodcast

Follow us on on Twitter @IWL_Podcast

Episode 1: An Introduction

This episode of IWL is brought to you by cardigans, the uniform staple of interchangeable white ladies everywhere. Today’s essential question: what’s an IWL and why does it matter?

Annie & Hope discuss where the term “Interchangeable White Lady” comes from and what the challenge is for white female teachers working with diverse students. The term original defined as “smiling, 20-something in her Target cardigan standing in front of a Smartboard” in Hope’s blog post The Interchangeable White Lady: An Introduction. In actuality, this label refers to the way students view their teachers. The concept was created in the context that 80% of educators are white women, teaching students of color (stats vary depending on source). Student perception is key. Relationships are crucial. White female teachers need to consider how students perceive them and accept the challenge this creates. It's a challenge to:

  1. To teach in a culturally responsive way based on the students before us.
  2. To view our instruction through the lens of traditionally marginalized youth.
  3. To distinguish ourselves as allies in the fight against institutional racism as we equip young men and women through the power of education.

Annie explains her own reactions to being an IWL. Paraphrases Roxanne Gay’s idea that you don’t need to apologize for being born white or wealthy, but to acknowledge how those traits are favored in society and how they make your movement through life different and often easier (and how you should use that privilege to help others move more easily).  Annie also shared her deep, fangirl-like appreciation for the illustrious and fabulous Mary Yu.

Timeless or Terrible: Annie and Hope weigh in on the staples of interchangeable white women everywhere. Today’s topics:

 Ugg Boots

Ugg Boots

 LuLaroe Leggings

LuLaroe Leggings

 Kombucha w/ the mother

Kombucha w/ the mother

Do Your Fudging Homework: Go read Jeff Raikes’ article “Color-Blindness Is a Cop-Out” and “Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack” by Peggy McIntosh.

Find  us on Facebook www.facebook.com/IWLpodcast or follow us on on Twitter @IWL_Podcast

Episode 0: Introducing Interchangeable White Ladies

Deconstructing privilege.
Confronting biases.
Working on being less basic.

We're launching the Interchangeable White Ladies podcast a show where we discuss education, culture, and local activism. We’re teachers so we have an essential question--How can white women use their privilege to deconstruct white culture, confront their own biases, be better allies, and be less basic? Listen to the Interchangeable White Ladies podcast to learn about all that and more!

Hosts: Hope Teague-Bowling & Annie Jansen