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Ep. 92: New Year, Same You

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EQ: What belief, practice, habit, or mindset are you taking with you in 2021?


In today’s episode we talk all about New Year, Same. Old. You. With the New Year comes the pressure to create resolutions and completely change who you are, but what if you don’t have to throw everything out? Hope and Megan discuss the lessons that they learned in 2020 and why they want to bring those with them into 2021. In the back half of the episode, they explain what NOT to bring with you into 2021 and highlight some white people who just keep on insisting on white people-ing. 

Related to our Discussion:

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Do something this week to continue to practice the lessons from 2020.

Book Club Reminder:

Pick up a copy of Caste by Isabel Wilkerson to join the collab book club between The Nerd Farmer Podcast and IWL.

  • Tweet about the book with either #nerdfarmreads or #readlessbasic

Follow us on Twitter @IWL_Podcast or find us on Facebook

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Ep. 91: Champagne and Real Pain, 2020 Year In Review

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Dear listeners, we brought the gang of interchangeable hosts back together for this special episode—the final show for 2020!

EQ: Who or what from 2020 deserves some champagne 🥂 and real pain👎🏻 pain this year?

Today’s special episode is all about the Real Pains of 2020 (there were many) and raising a glass in collective, and socially distanced celebration of the good things from 2020 (yes, there were good things!). Hope, Annie, and Megan discuss their top 3 Real Pains of 2020 and then finish the episode with their top 3 Champagnes. We also include honorable mentions shared by some of our listeners throughout the episode. 

Additional Resources

Book Club Reminder:

Pick up a copy of Caste by Isabel Wilkerson to join the collab book club between The Nerd Farmer Podcast and IWL.

  • Tweet about the book with either #nerdfarmreads or #readlessbasic

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Ep. 90: Out, Damned Test!

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EQ: Should Universities that adopted test-optional practices due to Covid maintain these policies in the post Covid world?

Guest: Mallory Torgerson-Preuitt (torgersm@seattleu.edu)  has worked in Higher Ed for 10+ years in a variety of positions and is currently the Associate Director of Transfer Admissions at Seattle University. She has spent her career focusing on accessibility to higher education and working to change the review process for transfer applicants to focus on counseling and advising.

Our conversation today focuses on test optional Universities and ultimately its role in equity and access to higher ed. We are joined by Mallory Torgerson-Preuitt, who opens the conversation by sharing her own journey to her higher education admissions work, focusing on how she didn’t find the right fit immediately, and how she stepped into her own during her time at a Community College. The discussion then moves into how Seattle University moved to a test optional model, even before Covid hit. The conversation hits on access and equity to test prep, testing sites, preparation, transportation and equitable rigor. We make the case for why Universities should consider keeping their Covid test optional policies in place for long after Covid leaves.

Related Links:

Champagne and Real Pain:

🥂The court transcripts re: Election 2020

🥂 All the admissions and high school counselors who are working their tail off during the Covid times
👎🏻 The White House refusing to answer the public's questions during a pandemic.

👎🏻Those election lawyers who are fighting for the election fraud angle. Shame Bell on getting State abbreviations wrong.

👎🏻All of the people that are not following Covid guidelines and being good community members.

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Hope/Megan: Read and tweet about Caste! Read with some friends.

  • Mallory: The Daily Podcast. Really good digestible news.

Book Club Reminder:

Pick up a copy of Caste by Isabel Wilkerson to join the collab book club between The Nerd Farmer Podcast and IWL.

Tweet about the book with either #nerdfarmreads or #readlessbasic

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Ep. 89: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is

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EQ: How can  financial giving a vital part of our equity & justice work?

Our conversation today focuses on how your annual giving can #belessbasic. As we know better, we need to do better, and that includes our giving.  We first focus on why you should care about where you are giving, and how you might think about where you choose to give your money. Hope and Megan then move into sharing the organizations that they choose to support, ranging from a wide variety of social causes. They end the episode talking about the suggestions that came in from some of our listeners. You can find an extensive list of resources below to the organizations that we discussed in today’s episode.

Tacoma-Local Orgs to Support:

Some of Hope’s Favs:

Megan’s Recommendations:

From our Listeners:

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Ep. 88: Someone is Waiting for Who You're Becoming

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Note to listeners: We recorded this episode at the end of October.

EQ: How can an emphasis on educational leadership impact and improve the recruitment and retention of teachers, especially Teachers of color?

Guest: Patrice Dawkins-Jackson, a Science educator, ambassador fellow, teacher leader, and ASCD Board Director. Patrice is also a Carnegie Foundation Associate, Director of the Post Baccalaureate Fellowship Program and Vice President of Cool Boys Communicate, Inc Board.

Our conversation spans a range of topics but centers Patrice's journey from the classroom into leadership. She shares her passion for being a disruptor, making pathways for students, and how we should develop our own pathways. One of the mottos she uses to drive her choices is the idea that “someone is waiting on who you’re becoming.” In order to make change we need to rethink our own roles and involvement in these changes. Additionally, she outlines some ways schools and districts should change to create more racially and culturally diverse communities by focusing on being places to belong. There is a necessary  mindset shift that those closest to the work need to commit rather than buying into something

Related resources:

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Hope/Megan: Check out Cool Boys Communicate Inc and Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching

  • Patrice: Embody the idea that someone is relying on you. Get started on your journey and bring someone along

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Ep. 87: A Letter to the 55%

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EQ: How did we go from the Woke White Women Movement that embraced BLM and rejected PSL in April to 55% of White women voting for Trump in November? 

We start this episode trying to build our empathy for all the basic white women out there by taste testing pumpkin spice flavored thing. We then launch into a discussion how shameful it is that white voters STILL vote for Trump DESPITE the last four years. As hhhwhite women ourselves (or white passing in Megan’s case), we feel especially convicted to “get our girls.” Ultimately, this conversation boils down to the fact that white women MUST do better and we cannot let our foot off the gas just because Biden is elected.

Jumps on soapbox: Equity is not a hat that you wear. Where you do a couple posts on your social media, read a book, and then you can walk away from it for the rest of the week, thinking you checked the box. It is simply not enough. Equity should be a value you carry with yourself all of the time. It should be a part of you and how you walk through life. Steps off soapbox

Related Sources:

Champagne & Real Pain:

🥂 The Judges who have absolutely no patience for the ridiculous lawsuits the Trump campaign is filing. Read the transcripts, they’re great.

👎🏻 The Texas Lieutenant Governor who offered up $1 million to anybody that could come forward with proof of election fraud… BUT a Champagne for the PA Lieutenant Governor who came back with the best tweet in response!

Do your fudging HW:

  • Megan & Hope: DO THE WORK.

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Ep. 86: Raising STEMinists

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EQ: What does equity in science education in the Corona Era look like and how might teachers continue to evolve their practices to engage students in a virtual space?

Guest: Chanel Johnson, science educator. Check her bio and interview from  Leading Equity and Interview with Teachers on Fire. 

Of course we had to ask Chanel a little bit about the historic role Georgia is playing in the 2020 elections. However, our main conversation focuses on figuring out what it means to be a STEMinist and how to encourage students of color to see themselves as scientists. Chanel also gives us insight into how importance Science education is in the middle of a pandemic. Lastly, she shares resources and ideas to help teachers intentionally embed culturally responsive teaching practices in a virtual context?

We’re excited to announce a collab with The Nerd Farmer podcast. We’re both going to be reading and recording episodes on the book Caste by Isabel Wilkerson. Tweet about the book with either #nerdfarmreads or #readlessbasic

Champagne & Real Pain:

🥂 YO, BIDEN IS PRESIDENT-ELECT!!!!!!!

Do Your Fudging Homework:

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Ep. 85: Confronting Barriers to Equity In Our Communities w/ Consultant Taniesha Lyons

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EQ: How has the work of diversity, equity and inclusion changed over time and why is this something organizations are still getting wrong in 2020?

Guest: Taniesha Lyons, community advocate, founder & executive director  of Taniesha Cares LLC whose mission is to empower people and businesses through consulting, resources, advocacy, and diversity equity, and inclusion (DEI) training. 

In this episode Hope and Megan are joined by Taniesha Lyons. They start the episode by talking about the importance of representation in all spaces, especially in education. By having spaces that are run by all white leaders, Cultural Imperialism is more evident and prevalent in that space. The conversation focuses on how organizations can and should include more voices in their organizations in order to create more equitable opportunities and representation or all. During the conversation they discuss cultural imperialism, social services and Covid, feelings around the new term BIPOC, and the trauma of code switching and the negative ramifications of school being a white space on students of color. 

Could you or someone you know benefit from some of the services discussed in the Podcast? You can find more information here:

Champagne and Real Pain:

🥂 Ron Banner - Clover Park Superintendent

🥂 Melanie Morgan - Representative for the 29th District  in the WA State Legislature

🥂 Marcus Young - Bethel School District School Board Member

🥂Larry Seaquist - Running for Pierce County Executive

🥂 T’wina Nobles - Running for 28th District 

🥂 Karen Dhaliwal - Bates Apprenticeship Navigator

🥂 Ben Feldbush - TCC Retention Specialist

🥂 Pastor C. Ivan Johnson - Pastor at Greater Destiny Church

🥂 Grant Twyman - Racial Equity Officer for Clover Park School District

🥂 All those writing personal letters to voters encouraging them to vote

🥂 Those having hard conversations w/ family & loved ones to ensure 45 is gone

🥂 Bea Lumpkin - the 102 year old women who essentially wore a hazmat suit to turn in her ballot

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • If you would like to hire Taniesha Lyons or learn more about what she does  you can reach her at her email: Tanieshacares@gmail.com

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Ep. 84: This is Where We're At

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EQ:  How can you, through the Trauma that is 2020, navigate figuring out what you can and can’t control and find the strength and persistence to change the things you can?

In this episode Hope & Megan recap ideas from episode 80 “Back to School Coronavirus Edition” and the predictions we had about returning to school. Now, weeks into the school year it’s apparent no one knows what they’re doing and we’re all barely holding on by a thread. Teachers, students, and families alike are trying to maintain some semblance of sanity with the ever shifting tide of expectations. With basically no leadership from the Federal Government and varied support from local leadership, the stress and trauma from living in the Rona Era continues to escalate. The conversation runs the gamut of topics including why we should/shouldn’t have in-person teaching, how we are trying to focus on what we can control and how we are finding slivers of joy in the midst of a pandemic. 

We hope that educators listening will feel a sense of solidarity and perhaps walk away from this with a few ideas for your own instructional practice. We also hope that for listeners not in education, this conversation shines some light on what is happening. 

Champagne and Real Pain:

🥂 All of the teachers out there that have been showing up the best they can, with all odds against them, and doing the damn thing.

👎🏻 Real Pain to 2020 man… like, why won’t it stop? Also, to the governor of Texas for an egregious block on Texans' right to vote.

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Megan: Go outside and get away from screens. Give your brain a break. Do it. You’ll like it. I promise.

  • Hope: Build in some time to escape or do something that brings you joy even if you feel it will put you further behind.

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Ep. 83: Kill the Ogre of Post Secondary Education with Katie Wallace

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EQ: What are the unique challenges of BIPOC students in post-secondary education and how can these institutions begin to dismantle their oppressive systems and histories in order to create a more inclusive and accessible community for these students?

Guest: Katie Wallace is an educator living and working in Seattle. She's Korean-American, adopted, and grew up in a multiracial family. After eight years teaching high school Spanish in Central and South Seattle, she transitioned out of the classroom and into higher education. She now leads a paid internship program for undergrads working with nonprofit and public sector organizations. 

Hope and Megan sit down with Katie Wallace to discuss the experience of BIPOC students in Post-Secondary education. As more BIPOC students are enrolling in Post Secondary education, the conversation is shifting to how are Universities creating equity in the experience of these students. The conversation focuses on the retention of students of color, and what the responsibility is of the Universities/Colleges regarding this work.

Resources Referenced:

Champagne & Real Pain:

🥂Not related to our topic at all, but if you are Christian leaning go listen to Chasing Justice podcast or pick up “Raise Your Voice: Why We Stay Silent and How to Speak Up” 

🥂The Republicans who spoke at the DNC and endorsed Biden despite party politics.

🥂Orientation Leaders at Colleges who are still showing up and serving the first year students

👎🏻Lack of care around face masks and people that are not listening to science and making life more challenging for business owners.

👎🏻People that are still opening schools and are ignoring the science around reopening

👎🏻Covid causing rituals and traditions to look very different and having to experience very real things on a screen

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Katie- Disturbing Your Peace podcast - Created by Katie’s former student

  • Hope- not related to our topic at all, but if you are Christian leaning go listen to Chasing Justice podcast or pick up “Raise Your Voice: Why We Stay Silent and How to Speak Up” 

  • Megan- Find your ballot dropboxes in your area. Request your ballot early. Drop off your ballot directly to a dropbox early. Then, buy a book of stamps.

Follow us on Twitter @IWL_Podcast or Facebook: Interchangeable White Ladies Podcast

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Read Less Basic Book Club: The Body is Not an Apology

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Essential Question: How can radical self-love and our relationships with our own bodies change the systems and world around us?

Guests: 

Janice Bridges-- Janice is a Mom of 4 of The Best People in the World and grandma to 4 amazing boys.She lives in Tacoma and loves it. She is retired after working nearly 20 years at Pierce County Juvenile Court.

    • She is also running for Pierce County Sheriff (find out more details on FB)

Christina McDade--Christina is from Gary, Indiana and has been working on behalf of teens most of her professional career. She is currently a high school counselor in Abu Dhabi. And like most of us, has been caught up in diet culture most of her life. She was also a guest on Nerd Farmer Podcast Ep 90 “On Representation & Making Space for Black Women in the Workplace”

Megan Holyoke joins Hope in her first episode as Co-host to discuss Sonya Renee Taylor’s book The Body Is Not An Apology. The episode starts with an overview and conversation about initial thoughts on the book. We then move into defining what Radical Self Love actually is and have a discussion on how it is different from Body Positivity. We have an honest conversation about our own relationships with our bodies, and reflect on how that relationship impacts the people and systems around us.  

List of Resources/Social Medias mentioned:

Learn more about Janice Bridges campaign for Pierce County Sheriff at the Facebook Page Mamzforsheriff

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Ep. 81: Getting Comfortable with Discomfort

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EQ: How can educators intentionally make space for challenging and engaging conversations in the classroom, be it virtual, hybrid or in-person?

Guests:

  • Milton Reynold, a San Francisco Bay Area based career educator, author, equity and inclusion consultant and activist. 

  • Stacey Kertsman, a veteran educator and has worked with schools and nonprofits around the country and internationally developing partnership-based programming for students and learners.  

This episode is a continuation of a panel discussion with Milton, Stacey, & Hope “Engaging Conversations Online and Off” about why we should embrace challenging conversations in the classroom and how to facilitate these dialogues. One theme of the episode is how to hold complexity of thoughts and seeming contradictions when pursuing equity and justice in teaching and learning. We are often socialized for avoidance and white teachers are especially adept at this, particularly if the conversations include analysis of race. Another theme is what it takes to  maintain a sense of urgency while also moving with the ebb and flow of the work. Instead of running towards simple solutions, educators need to grow capacity for discomfort and invest time into the process. Milton and Stacey leave us with practical advice for how to engage in the difficult conversations with ourselves, our colleagues, and our students in the new school year. 

Related Reading:

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Stacey---get proximate with someone and push your understanding

  • Milton--wrap your head around eugenics and read Eugenic Nation by Alexandra Minna Stern

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Ep. 80: Back To School Coronavirus Edition

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EQ:  How can educators continue to do their own racial literacy, while managing COVID trauma and teaching remotely?

In this episode, Megan and Hope discuss a range of topics including  how we’re feeling about the start of the new year and the Wild West of the Covid Era, what’s the difference between emergency remote teaching and actual online learning, how to manage the unknown knowns and known unknowns, AND how to continue to intentional grow our own capacity to be anti-racists and design curriculum accordingly. We also touch on how to create meaningful virtual communities, what are the best practices for student engagement and how do we support students, families, teachers and our communities in this environment.

Resources referenced:

Champagne & Real Pain:

🥂All the teachers who ARE working hard prepping for the school year

👎🏻Districts who are ignoring COVID reopening guidelines and opening their campuses (such as Georgia Reverses Suspension)

👎🏻 The politicians who’ve shifted to blaming and vilifying teachers when they were praising us back in the Spring.

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Hope & Megan: Read some of the links above, learn about the challenges of reopening schools, and support our communities (families, students, parents, teachers, ERBODY) in this stressful time

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Happy Podiversary!

We’re super excited to announce a special addition to the podcast to kick off season 4!

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Ep. 79: The Role of Doulas in Promoting Racial Justice in Reproductive Health

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EQ:  What role can doulas play in promoting racial justice in reproductive healthcare? 

Guest: Vanessa Bussell is the owner of Butterfly Birth. “She is a Student-Midwife, Doula, Community Health Worker, Health Minister, HypnoBirthing® Childbirth Educator and breastfeeding peer counselor in Tacoma,WA. Vanessa mainly works with underrepresented communities.”

The birth experience is something many of us experience first hand or in supporting someone we love. We’ve discussed some of the topics surrounding motherhoods, advocacy and justice in previous episodes:  “Perspective on Childbirth, Motherhood, & Advocacy"with Tobbi Tommaney and "Being a Boob Defender" with Leah Ford.

In this episode, Vanessa shares her story of how she was called to be a doula, the creation of Butterfly Birth, anti-doula bias rampant in hospitals, how to advocate for your birth plan and what it’s like being a black doula. She explains the impact of systems of white supremacy and racism that create birth trauma. To educate yourself, check out the links and resources below. 

Related Links:

Champagne & Real Pain:

🥂 Black Women Birthing Justice, Birthing Beautiful Communities 

🥂 Birth for the People

👎🏻Doctors and medical professionals who don’t listen

👎🏻We don't’ have to understand something to respect it

Do Your Fudging Homework:

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Ep. 78: Defund School Resource Officers

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EQ: To what extent do schools need SROs? 

Guest: Megan Holyoke, Lincoln HS Teacher and shit-talker extraordinaire. Previous guest on IWL Episode 29 “Striking While Female”

We begin this episode by voicing our current thoughts on the #defundthepolice and #abolishthepolice moments. Listeners can rest assured that this discussion is not about any one officer but about systems. American policing is rooted in slavery and is now an integral mechanism in our public schools. To be clear, calling for a removal of police from schools is an explicit disruption to the school to prison pipeline. We are asking that the money spent on district partnerships with local police be used to fund social services such as counselors, nurses, social workers, etc. We continue to circle around the notion that white people continue to make excuses and uphold oppressive systems such as policing because they are afraid.

List of Resources Referenced:

Champagne & Real Pain:

🥂Restorative Justice Work

🥂The Advancement Project

🥂Minneapolis Public Schools Terminates Contract with Police Department

👎🏻White people who refuse to understand George Floyd protests

👎🏻People so set in their fear they can’t hear or listen to others

Do  Your Fudging Homework:

  • Annie: Rewatch 13th documentary

  • Hope: Read some of the links above; listen or read Stamped from the Beginning

  • Megan: Before you go outward, go inward to examine why you are so defensive

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Ep. 77: Racial Healing Is A Crucial Component for Achieving Equity

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EQ: Why is racial healing a crucial component for achieving equity in our schools and communities?

Guest: Tovi Scruggs-Hussein is “a visionary educator, author, and award-winning urban high school principal with over 25 years of emotional intelligence training.” Her work on self-transformation and  healing through courageous leadership development can be found at Ticiess. Highlights from our discussion include recognizing that educators can be smart and dedicated but still be racist (and uphold racist infrastructure in schools).  We further discuss how to make long term change, and grow our compassion for colleagues and students. We cannot serve our students unless we are more balanced in our own personal lives and truly understand our racial and cultural identities. In education, we often ignore that both teachers and students experience educational trauma. It’s only through acknowledgement of this trauma and pursuit of healing that we can achieve equity for all students. 

Additional resources:

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Annie: Do some additional research about radical empathy!

  • Hope:  Go read about Racial Healing Allies--download the ebook & sign up for an e-course

  • Tovi: Please pace yourself (white folks!) and do not burn out.

Follow us on Twitter @IWL_Podcast or Facebook: Interchangeable White Ladies Podcast

Don’t forget to pick up your copy of The Body is Not an Apology for the #readlessbasic book club

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Ep. 76: How a Slice of Poundcake Can Change A Community

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EQ: How are small business owners coping with the coronavirus pandemic and adapting in this new environment?

Guest: Cassandra Williams--pastry chef, baker, creator She is the founding CEO and lead baker at Love by the Slice.

Cassandra shares the story of how she fell in love with baking and Love by Slice was birthed from poundcake.  Through unexpected surprises and challenges, Cassandra focuses on the blessings she received through this business and how she is able to give back to the community. The unexpected opportunity brought on by Covid-19 to create Revive Washington. We don’t just talk about baking but dig into current events and why we hope that when the cameras shut off, people will still be in the game, working towards social and racial justice. 

Follow, support and donate to Revive Washington via Facebook

Other Black Businesses to support:

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Cassandra: Ask our selves and write it down on paper—what are our biases (as it relates to race, etc). Identify two or three actions that will help us overcome those biases.

  • Hope: Support black/women/minority owned business

Follow us on Twitter @IWL_Podcast or Facebook: Interchangeable White Ladies Podcast

Lastly, don’t forget to pick up your copy of The Body is Not an Apology for the #readlessbasic book club

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Ep. 75: Keep Calm & Grow Plants

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Note to listeners: This episode was recorded the end of May, prior to George Floyd’s murder and ensuing civil unrest. We’ve added an additional 6minutes at the end of this episode for Kat to update us on her business and how her own thinking and learning has changed since that time.

EQ: How are small business owners coping with the coronavirus pandemic and why do we need plants now more than ever? 

Guest: Katherine Raz is the owner of  The Fernseed, a retail plant shop based in Tacoma, Washington that is now expanding its e-commerce offerings and opening a second location to service floral. You can follow The Fernseed on Facebook.

In this episode, Kat shares her passion for plants and her desire to be a thoughtful, white, female business owner. We discuss things such as gentrification, advice for other small business owners and the impact of COVID-19 on our business and communities. 

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Annie: gardening and cottage core Tiktok 

  • Hope: check out The Fernseed and buy plants!

  • Katherine: replace your Amazon spending with someone local such as King’s Books

    Follow us on Twitter @IWL_Podcast or Facebook: Interchangeable White Ladies Podcast

    Lastly, don’t forget to pick up your copy of The Body is Not an Apology for the #readlessbasic book club.

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Ep. 74: How A Pandemic & Civil Unrest Impacts Mental Health: Perspective from A Social Psychologist

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Notes to listeners:  This episode was recorded early June and was intended to discuss the impact of the coronavirus on our mental health and the initial responses to the protests against police brutality. There are many key issues we did not cover, but we hope you will find some solace in this episode.

EQ: What impact is the Coronavirus pandemic having on mental health and how are those impacts uniquely burdensome for female identified folx and people of color?

Guest: Michelle Ceynar

The pandemic is highlighting inequities in our society in new ways and exacerbating anxiety and depression around the world. This experience is much like adolescent ups and downs. The inability to recover from all the “fires” makes it difficult to ever fully recover. People of color are not only left out of conversations about mental health but are most impacted because of institutional racism and marginalization.

Related Links:

Champagne & Real Pain

🥂Legal Defense Funds

🥂Businesses coming out in support of BLM saying

🥂Conservative “middle” people who are waking up to the situation in America

🥂The Humble grocery store employee

👎🏻Murderers of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery

👎🏻White people who refuse to understand George Floyd protests 

👎🏻Police officers who aren’t refusing to go to work or standing up to their crew

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Annie: Michelle’s work. Our episode cast a really broad net today, so don’t forget to learn more about social psychology theory and read Michelle’s new research. Psychology Today-  The Psychology of Rioting: the Language of the Unheard 

  • Michelle: Do internal HW--start thinking about why you’re responding to “riots” the way you’re responding.

  • Doug: don’t post fake images—do you homework on anything you post

Follow us on Twitter @IWL_Podcast or Facebook: Interchangeable White Ladies Podcast

Lastly, don’t forget to pick up your copy of The Body is Not an Apology for the #readlessbasic book club

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