Ep. 208: Intro to the Budget Crisis In Tacoma Public Schools

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EQ: What does Tacoma public school’s budget crisis reveal about the future of public education in underfunded communities?

In this episode, we get real about what’s going on in Tacoma’s schools — a growing budget crisis that’s forced layoffs, cuts to programs, and tough choices about where resources go. Rising administrative salaries, restrictive state funding, and declining enrollment have all played a role, putting pressure on a district already stretched thin. We discuss how policy decisions made years earlier and a heavy reliance on temporary COVID funding paved the way for today’s struggles, and what it signals for underfunded districts across the country. As a crucial June 26 budget meeting approaches, the future of education in Tacoma hangs in the balance — and the community’s voice is more important than ever.

Related Links:

Ep. 207: Rights, Rulings, and a Constitutional Reckoning

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NEW NOTE: Check out the SCOTUS ruling here! They actually did the right thing!

Note: Since the recording of this episode…

  1. Supreme Court Declined to Hear Gun Control Challenges

  2. The Supreme Court has added 4 new cases for 2025-26

  3. Decisions to watch for in June

EQ:  What do the current SCOTUS cases and corresponding decisions reveal about the current state of the U.S. Constitution and what might they signal for the future of our democracy?

In this episode, we break down what a constitutional crisis actually is, why people are sounding the alarm, and where recent events—like Trump’s defiance of constitutional norms—fall on the crisis spectrum. Then, we dig into a wild lineup of Supreme Court cases that could shake up everything from who gets to stay in the country to who gets to stay in school. We’ll also revisit Federalist 78 and ask: if the courts have neither the purse nor the sword, how much power do they really have left? From beef over birthright citizenship to bans on gender-affirming care and challenges to disability accommodations in schools, the Supreme Court is about to make decisions that could fundamentally reshape Americans' rights—and redefine the limits of government power. 

References:

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Hope: Parable of the Sower–depressing but necessary

  • Megan: Ditto

  • Annie: educate yourself further

Ep. 206: Protecting Disability Rights in Tumultuous Times with Carrie Griffin Basas

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EQ:  How is the current political, legal, and social climate in Washington State and across the U.S. shaping the future of disability rights — and what must advocates do to protect and advance justice for disabled communities today?

In this episode, we reconnect with Carrie Griffin Basas, attorney, organizational consultant and  the founder of CoDesign Works. In episode 18 “Save your Hemorrhoids Story for Facebook”, we considered how disability justice and racial justice are intertwined. For both IWLs, this conversation shifted our perspective on disability justice. Carrie has had a full circle journey since our last conversation—moving away from Washington State and then returning. We get an update on life  including their work in the 2023 Rooted in Rights series Parenting Without Pity, and the founding of their new organization, CoDesign Works PLLC. As a woman- and disabled-owned firm, CoDesign is focused on centering community expertise in designing solutions for the social impact sector—offering both legal and strategic support to tax-exempt organizations. We talk about what it really means to “champion inclusive solutions across sectors” and how that shows up in practice. From there, the conversation moves into the current landscape of disability rights in Washington State—what’s working, where the gaps are, and how the state compares nationally. We also get into the bigger picture: emerging legal battles at the federal level, the impact of pharmaceutical shortages on disabled communities, and just how alarmed we should be by recent attacks on the Department of Education and disability-related protections like IEPs and 504 plans.

Relevant Resources:

Guilty Favesies:

  • Annie: eating the same foods basically every day (until 2 PM).

  • Hope: dark chocolate

  • Carrie: Love is Blind, Sweden; little people show

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Annie: there’s been a lot of discussion lately around autism spectrum disorder, especially in light of rather frightening and unhinged comments coming from people working within the federal government. Honestly, it’s poorly understood and the day-to-day discourse around it in society is ignorant at best and extremely harmful at worst. If you’re not autistic and/or don’t understand autism well, please educate yourself about it and be armed with information for these conversations. For a very basic rundown, find a reputable academic source, such as the Cleveland Clinic, to get information. Do not rely on federal government resources at this time. 

Ep. 205: Becoming a “Good Relative” with Author Hilary Giovale

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EQ: How can individuals of European descent acknowledge their ancestral histories and take meaningful steps toward truth, healing, and repair in their relationships with Indigenous and Black communities?

In this powerful episode, we sit down with Hilary Giovale, author of Becoming a Good Relative: Calling White Settlers Toward Truth, Healing, and Repair, to explore how individuals of European descent can reckon with their ancestral histories and engage in meaningful truth, healing, and repair with Indigenous and Black communities. Hilary shares her personal journey of uncovering Celtic, Germanic, and Nordic roots, awakening to the harms of settler colonialism, and redefining what it means to be a “good relative” in today’s world. We discuss the significance of settler identity, the concept of “white peril,” the role of rituals and spiritual practices in healing, and her ten guidelines for building respectful, cross-cultural relationships. Through honest reflection and a deep commitment to relational accountability, Hilary offers a vision for how white settlers can move beyond denial toward connection, responsibility, and repair.

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Annie: Do Hilary’s homework–dig into your past/lineage/ways you can

  • Hilary: Following this guide, make a personal reparations plan

    • Sign up for a monthly contribution to a Land Tax program (all those I know about are listed on this page)

    • Read An Indigenous People's History of the United States, by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz

  • Hope: Support Tacoma Reparations

Ep. 204: Sips & Sustainability--The Story of Tacoma Green Drinks

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EQ: Can social gatherings really spark environmental change?

Guests: Crissy Cooley and Robb Krehbiel

In this episode, we’re chatting all about Tacoma Green Drinks—how it got started, how it’s grown, and the impact it’s making in the local sustainability scene.  We explore the mission behind Green Drinks and how it’s become a unique space that balances social connection with solution-focused conversations. Our guest shares what goes into organizing these community-driven events—from picking the perfect venue to setting the right vibe—and how the events have grown more inclusive over time. We highlight the kinds of people and causes that show up, the local impact of networking over a drink, and a powerful success story that came from a Green Drinks connection. Plus, we discuss the importance of community in tackling environmental issues and how listeners can get involved.

Champagne & Real Pain:

🥂Green Drinks!

🥂Communities for a Healthy Bay

👎🏻Trump Admin approach to National Parks & National Forests–cuts to National Park Funding and half of National Forests  are open for logging

👎🏻 Northwest Detention Center

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Hope: Get involved in something local!

  • Annie: DO drink your calories. For our sober friends, many of these places where Green Drinks is holding events also have great NA options! Remove barriers for yourself to get out there

  • Rob: Follow us on Facebook and Instagram

  • Crissy: Check out Aquagua’s and Earthwise’s

Ep. 203: DOGE--Dismantling Our Government Entirely

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Note to listeners: we recorded this about a month ago, so of course things have worsened.

EQ: How does the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) exemplify the dangers of unchecked executive power, and what are the legal and democratic consequences of its overreach?

In this episode, we unpack the strange and sweeping saga of DOGE—no, not the meme coin, but Trump’s rebranded tech task force aimed at “modernizing” the federal government. What started as a quiet Obama-era initiative under the OMB has now morphed into a mysterious Silicon Valley bro-squad operating directly under the Executive Office of the President. With mass firings, lawsuits from 18 states, and wild stories involving 90 beers and zero critical thinking, we’re asking: What exactly is DOGE? Is it constitutional? Who’s really in charge—and can the courts keep up? From firings of inspectors general to stalled humanitarian aid and lawsuits flying from every direction, this episode attempts to survey the mess of  legal battles, power grabs, and digital disruption defining one of the most quietly dangerous moves of this administration.

Resources Referenced in the conversation:

Champagne & Real Paine:

🥂On Tyranny Tim Snyder

🥂Brooke Harrington Trump's “Broligarchy” of Tech Billionaires

👎🏻 The guy pouring beer over ice

👎🏻The dem party can’t get themselves together

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Hope: Find some orgs–use your egg money to support 

  • Megan: You only need to check the news once a day. Choose a reputable source (NPR, BBC, etc.). Also, contact your members of Congress AND contact any members from swing districts around you and communicate your concerns and ask for direct action in stopping Trump. 

  • Annie: Fight the Fasch—drink water, get some sleep, eat something healthy and get a little exercise.

Ep. 202: Get Thee to a Drag Show w/ Artist Flamy Grant

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Note to listeners:

This is the second episode in a series! We were inspired by our conversation with Margot Douaihy in episode 199 to dig deeper into the ways in which the current political climate is threatening the safety and livelihoods of creatives and what we can do to not only protect artists of all kinds by supporting their work but also stand on business and take actionable steps to counter the attacks on music, books, film, television, theater, art, and live entertainment, including drag shows, which have received outsized attention in terms of censorship and, in some cases, criminalization. 

EQ: How can creatives and their audiences work together to uplift and empower artistic expression in an increasingly fraught and dangerous political environment and in what ways does the art of drag support that goal?

In this episode, we sit down with Flamy Grant to explore the journey from hometown roots to the present and how place shapes artistry.  Our conversation traverses everything from the story behind their drag persona, what it means to find your authentic self, and the joys & challenges of making music that disrupts and empowers. We discuss faith, evolving beliefs, and the surprising space churches have held in their career. From “slaying shame” to creating safe spaces at shows, we explore what it means to live joyfully in resistance, the role of artists in today’s political landscape, and how fans can support creatives in these wild times.

References in the episode:

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Annie: Flamy is going on tour! Please consider attending a show - if you’re in the Pacific Northwest, you’ll have the opportunity to see her in Bend, Eugene, or Portland, Oregon, or Seattle in April. You should also check out her album, Church, which is available everywhere you enjoy music. Please also support your local drag community!

  • Hope: Ditto!

  • Flamy: Go to a drag show!

Ep. 201: White Women and The Work Ahead

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EQ: How can white women move beyond a history of dependence on systems of power—both politically and socially—to take real accountability, build solidarity, and take meaningful action in a time of institutional failure and democratic backsliding?

The original inspiration for this episode came from Bluesky “White women are so used to being rescued by white men that now that you need to be rescued FROM white men, you are looking for a new hero. There are about 100 million white women in the US, and only about 22 million black women. Everyone needs you to grow up and be your own heroes.”

In this episode, we’re breaking down the ways white women have historically positioned themselves in social movements, from taking up leadership roles to center their own voices to walking away once their specific needs are met. We discuss “two types of white women”-- the well meaning liberals and the right leaning trad wife types, specifically where these venn diagrams overlap (aka, fighting the patriarchy). We’re also digging into the uncomfortable reality of performative activism, weaponized tears, and the idea that being “found out” is worse than not doing enough in the first place. We also explore the contradictions of the social contract in today’s political climate and why we tend to process politics through a personal lens rather than a systemic one. This conversation is about power, privilege, and what it actually takes to stay in the work—even when it’s messy, even when it’s uncomfortable, even when the curated perception of being a “good ally” isn’t enough.

Related Resources:

Do Your Fudging Homework:

Ep. 200: Celebrating 12,000 Minutes of Banter, Chicanery & Opinions

EQ: Why-WL?

We made it, y’all—200 episodes! Stoked to be celebrating our 200th episode of the podcast! It started as a conversation over dinner, evolved into a blog post and an 8 episode run. Here we are at 12,000 minutes (give or take) of conversation, questions, opinions, arguments, and lots AND LOTS of learning!In this special two-segment celebration, we’re reminiscing about why we started this wild ride, the twists and turns along the way (COVID detours included), and what’s kept us going. We’re looking back at our favorite episodes, most memorable guests, and, of course, the nonsense segments that define IWL. From moral panic deep dives to supermarket security metaphors, we’re grateful for every conversation, listener, and every piece of homework assigned. Thanks for being part of this journey—here’s to the next 200!

🎧 Listen now & celebrate with us!

Episodes Referenced:

Ep. 199: Get Thee to a Nunnery w/ Author Margot Douaihy

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EQ: How do you navigate the intersections of crime fiction, poetry, and identity to create stories that challenge genre conventions and expand the boundaries of storytelling?

We sit down with  Margot Douaihy, author of the Sister Holiday Crime Series (Scorched Grace, Blessed Water), Bandit/Queen: The Runaway Story of Belle Starr, and numerous poetry collections (Scranton Lace, Girls Like You) to explore storytelling as both a craft and a form of personal inquiry. Margot shares how growing up in a Maronite Christian household shaped her writing, how the Bible itself is full of crime stories, and why faith, redemption, and identity drive her work. We also discuss how dynamic, flawed characters reflect and refract society, providing readers with an opportunity for self examination and even entry points into perspectives they know very little about. By writing such characters, Margot gives readers a stake in larger conversations about morality, the tension between beauty and terror, and humanity’s search for answers. Additionally, we discuss LGBTQ+ representation in crime fiction, and why now more than ever we must support queer authors and stories that certain powers want to bury.

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Hope: Grab a copy of Scorched Grace or one of Margot’s poetry collections.

  • Annie: Support queer authors always, but especially now. Not only do we need queer voices in publishing, the political landscape is in shambles and those stories are critical to hold onto hope and joy and prepare for what’s next. If you can, buy physical media. We’ve seen enough digital things disappearing lately that this is your sign to buy the books you love and the books you’ll love soon, like Margot’s. 

  • Margot: Read legal thrillers, particularly Robyn Gigl’s Erin McGabe Mysteries Series

Ep. 198: Hard Hats & Hard Truths: Michelle Bates on Women in Construction

EQ: What do you believe are the most significant changes needed in the construction industry to create a more inclusive and supportive environment for women in trades, and how can individuals and organizations contribute to this transformation?

We’re back with part two of our series on diversifying the trades! Listen to our previous conversation in Ep 189: Wired for Change w/ Alejandra Alexander

This time, we’re talking with Michelle Bates, a total powerhouse with 30 years in the construction industry. Michelle grew up bouncing between Ontario and British Columbia and now runs Echelon Creative, where she tackles everything from commercial and civil projects to factory-built homes and custom log structures. We get into her journey—what drew her to the trades, the challenges she faced as a woman in a male-dominated field, and what still needs to change to make the industry more inclusive. From breaking down misconceptions to shouting out resources like Women in Construction, Michelle shares her take on how we can all help move the needle.

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Annie: if you’re a woman, non-binary, or trans person interested in a career in the trades in the Seattle-Tacoma area and don’t know where to start, check out the pre-apprenticeship programs at ANEW, based out of Tukwila. It’s not too late to start - I changed careers at 30 and there were multiple people in my pre-apprenticeship class in their late 30s and early 40s. 

  • Michelle: Women in Construction (Vancouver Island Construction Association)

Ep. 197: Climate Anxiety & Sacred Resilience with Dr. Suzanne Crawford O’Brien

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EQ: How can the community built at the intersection of religion, indigenous perspectives, and climate anxiety lead us to personal and collective resilience in the pursuit of a more sustainable world?

In this episode, we’re joined by Dr. Suzanne Crawford O’Brien, professor of Religion and Culture at Pacific Lutheran University. Suzanne shares her journey into academia, including the defining moments that led her to focus on comparative religious studies, Native American studies, and environmental studies. She explains the concept of climate anxiety, how it impacts individuals and communities, and how her recent course “Climate Anxiety & Spiritual Resilience” integrates the psychology of this anxiety with interfaith approaches to building resilience while pursuing justice and sustainability. She postulates that solving the climate crisis is way beyond ourselves—beyond the natural world and we need to tap into the supernatural or spiritual ways of being and thinking to really tackle the problem. We discuss the role of faith communities and spiritual practices in addressing climate grief and helping us “metabolize grief.” Finally, Dr. Suzanne suggests that we must cultivate what Thic Nhat Hanh coins as our “inner meditator, artist, and warrior” if we want to see true sustainable change.

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Hope: Follow Suzanne on Substack!

  • Annie: Mr. Rogers always said, when things are scary, look for the helpers. Look for the organizations and people who are doing great work to raise awareness of the climate crisis and take actionable steps to improve outcomes, like Indigenous Climate Action and Earthjustice. The helpers are there, even right now: Klamath Tribes and Navajo Nation have deployed firefighters to combat the fires in the LA area. It may feel like a small thing, but getting your hands dirty yourself can really help restore some small sense of hope, too. Locally, the Pierce County Conservation District has volunteer opportunities in habitat restoration. 

  • Suzanne: Cole Arthur Riley’s “This Flesh Here”; Thich Nhat Hanh’s “Zen and the Art of Saving the Planet” and “Meeting the Enemy” by Kevin O’Brien

Ep. 196: New Year, Fresh Reads with Sweetpea Flaherty

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EQ: What books or trends do you think will define the reading experience for 2025, both for individual readers and the community your bookstore serves?

Today, we are back with the one and only Sweetpea Flaherty of King’s Books in Tacoma. Sweepea talks us through anticipated book releases for this spring. Get something to write with, because you’re going to want to take notes!

Support Bookstores

Support Libraries:

Nonfiction:

  • Dark Laboratory: On Columbus, the Caribbean, and the Origins of the Climate Crisis by Tao Leigh Goffe

  • Strike : Labor, Unions, and Resistance in the Roman Empire by Sarah E Bond

  • Authority by Andrea Long Chu

Memoir/Biography

  • Harder I Fight the More I Love You by Neko Case

  • Rachel Carson and the Power of Queer Love by Lida Maxwell

Picture Books

  • Make a Pretty Sound : A Story of Ella Jenkins—The First Lady of Children's Music by Traci N. Todd, Eleanor Davis

  • Make Your Mark : The Empowering True Story of the First Known Black Female Tattoo Artist by Jacci Gresham, Sherry Fellores

  • Yáadilá! : Good Grief! by Laurel Goodluck, Jonathan Nelson

  • Rise Up!: Powerful Protests in American History by Rachel C. Katz, Sophie Bass

Teen

  • They Bloom at Night by Tran Thanh Tran

Poetry

  • Strange Beach by Oluwaseun Olayiwola

  • Eternal Dice by César Vallejo

  • Buzzkill Clamshell  by Amber Dawn

Fiction

  • Life of Herod the Great by Zora Neale Hurston

  • Death of the Author by Nnedi Okorafor

  • Relationship Mechanic by Karmen Lee

  • Listen to Your Sister by Neena Vel

  • Stag Dance by Torrey Peters

  • Buffalo Hunter Hunter by Stephen Graham Jones

Great Gifts

  • Black in Blues : How a Color Tells the Story of My People by Imani Perry

  • Bookstore Romance : Love Speaks Volumes by Judith Rosen

Ep. 195: Māori Sovereignty, the Treaty Principles Bill, and Global Solidarity w/ Naketa Ikihele

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EQ: How are recent legislative policies rewriting or challenging Māori rights, and what does this mean for the future of education and social equity in New Zealand?

In this episode of Interchangeable White Ladies, Hope reconnects with former guest, Naketa Ikihele, educator, activist and leadership coach. Naketa previously appeared on the podcast in Ep 61: Fighting to Equity in NZ Public Schools. Today, we meet up to discuss the evolving dynamics of Māori sovereignty and the contentious Treaty Principles Bill in Aotearoa New Zealand. Naketa sheds light on the nature of indigenous governance, how Māori rights are recognized (or not) within the country and unpack the bill’s implications, including the closure of the Māori Health Authority, the prioritization of English over Te Reo Māori, and the principles redefining governance and equality under the law. We highlight the viral haka protest by MP Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke and the ongoing public outcry, with submissions on the bill still being accepted. For our global listeners, we delve into how to support Māori rights and the broader implications of such policies on education and cultural recognition. Join us to deepen your understanding of leadership, governance, and solidarity across cultures.

Check out Nateka’s organization “Cultivating Cultures”

Related Resources:

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Hope: Read a book! Maybe something from this list

  • Naketa: Get actively involved. Write a submission by Jan 7!

Ep. 194: Holiday Realness: Staying Grounded This Season

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EQ: How do the seasons we’re in (socially, politically, and financially) shape the way we navigate current events, embrace fall transitions, and connect with family during the holidays?

Get ready to cozy up with us as we dive into fall vibes, holiday chaos, and winter wellness! We’re talking favorite autumn traditions (snacks, sweats, and staying sane), navigating tricky family gatherings (boundaries, overplanning, and maybe just not going), and tips for staying healthy when it’s dark and cold (hello, YouTube yoga and heated vests). Plus, we share underreported stories, viral moments that warmed our hearts, and some holiday memories in this episode of IWL. Tune in for a blend of humor, heartfelt advice, and inspiration to carry you through the season!

References:

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Hope: Take care of yourself! Build in something that is de-stressing for you

  • Annie: Go to your local coffee place and enjoy a yummy drink!

Ep. 193: Rethinking Feminism for Collective Liberation w/ author Serene Khader

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In this episode, we explore  the transformative ideas presented in Faux Feminism: Why We Fall for White Feminism and How We Can Stop with author Serene Khader.  The conversation begins with the author's unique perspective on feminism, shaped by her personal and academic journey, and the central thesis of the book: dismantling "The Freedom Myth." This pervasive misconception reframes feminism as individual freedom rather than collective equality, leaving systemic oppression intact. Each chapter unpacks a different "myth" surrounding modern feminism, from the "Restriction Myth" of equating oppression solely with personal limitations to the "Individualism Myth," which falsely prioritizes personal success over structural change. The discussion also tackles intersectionality, cultural hegemony, and the role of privilege in perpetuating inequality. Together, we explore practical solutions for breaking down entrenched hierarchies, the need for solidarity in feminist movements, and how societal structures must evolve to achieve true liberation. Whether you're new to these ideas or looking to deepen your understanding, this episode is for you!

Do Your Fudging Homework

  • Annie: Read this book to support Serene’s work. It’s available everywhere in every format. Get to it and support your local bookseller in the process!

  • Serene: Learn about movements to value domestic and care labor. National Domestic Workers Alliance. 

  • Hope: Read things that push you outside of your comfort zone or reframe ideas.

Ep. 192: The Arc of the Moral Universe Seems Like It's Bending Towards Hell

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In this episode, Hope, Annie and Doug process their reactions to the 2024 US Election results, processing a mix of anger, exhaustion, and disbelief. With Republicans securing power across all three branches, we’re all struggling to find hope. Annie reflects on the jolt of living in her "blue bubble," while Hope wrestles with disgust  over Trump's continued support, particularly from Christian Evangelicals and white women. Coping mechanisms are all over the place—from exercising to keep our anxieties at bay to avoiding political news. Project 2025 and its potential threat to democratic freedoms weighs heavily on our souls. As we look ahead, we encourage listeners to sit in whatever stage of grief  they may be in, and perhaps adopt emergency plans and "doomsday prepper" mindsets as we brace for a politically charged future. Our takeaway: care for yourself and your community, and stay engaged because the 2026 midterms are around the corner, and there’s more work to do.

Ep. 191: Reparations in Action: Building Racial Equity in Tacoma

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In this episode, we sit down with Nicole Jordan, a Black, queer activist with deep ties to Tacoma’s Hilltop community and Laurie Arnold, an educator and longtime social justice advocate focused on racial justice. Together with a cohort of strong women, lead Tacoma Does Reparations, a grassroots initiative dedicated to reparative payments for Black womxn living in Tacoma. This conversation dives into the organization's origins, the scope of their work, and their vision for racial equity. Listeners will hear about the concept of reparations, both broadly and specifically in the context of Tacoma. Laurie and Nicole discuss past reparative efforts as models for the Tacoma initiative, common misconceptions and challenges they’ve faced. Most importantly we explore why reparations are essential to addressing racial wealth disparities. 

Do Your Fudging Homework:

Ep. 190: Intersectional Story-Telling & Why Anger is Healthy with Author Sonora Reyes

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EQ: How do stories that center queer and Latinx identities challenge mainstream narratives in literature, and what role do they play in fostering greater understanding and representation across both young adult and adult genres?

In this episode of IWL, we are joined by author Sonora Reyes. Sonora is most known for their hit YA novels The Lesbiana's Guide to Catholic School and The Luis Ortega Survival Club. We get personal with Sonora about how their unique identities influence their stories and the importance of staying authentic when representing complex, intersectional characters.

We also talk about how queer and Latinx stories are reshaping mainstream narratives in literature—both in young adult and adult genres. Sonora shares their writing process, from balancing genres to what’s inspiring them right now, and how community plays a center role in their writing. We learn more (and geek out about) their upcoming Adult Romance novel The Broposal.

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Sonora: Self-Care App: Finch

  • Hope/Annie: Please support Sonora’s work by purchasing and sharing their books (support your local bookstores!)