Ep. 50: Let's Talk Intergaycial Relationships


EQ: Why is it important to recognize and/or celebrate Pride? 

Guests: Cal-Jean Lloyd-Wagner, MS Language Arts teacher & Cat Melaunie, kindergarten teacher and previous guest on Ep. 22 That’s Pinteresting!)

We recorded this episode to celebrate Pride season. From funny coming out stories and a debate on how many rainbows is too many rainbows, we hope our listeners will learn a little more about how to support their LGBTQ+ friends and neighbors. Since we never shy away from complicated topics and work hard to think about the world intersectionality, we also dip into a discussion on what’s wonderful, challenging, and unique about being in an intergaycial relationship[ (that’s short for interracial & gay!).

Ways to support Pride this month:

Newish Segment Champagne & Real Pain Sir Bacon or Tom Waits:

  • Champagne - we want to raise a glass/ pour one out for

    • Lisa Keating. Go support her campaign for Tacoma School Board.

      • The organizations doing real work to help queer youth, especially those who have been rejected by their families and need a safe place to land. Locally, we’d like to raise a glass to Oasis Youth Center and PFLAG in Tacoma. The Trevor Project is also doing amazing work in the way of LGBTQ+ youth suicide prevention. 

  • Real Pain - we want to condemn these people & actions

    • Anti-gay and anti-trans violence. Leave people the hell alone and let them be themselves. Literally nothing bad will happen if you just mind your business. 

    • To all anti-LGBT bills that emerge every year

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Annie: I never thought I’d say this, but consider patronizing the Cracker Barrel in Cleveland, Tennessee. The store recently rejected a request for a meeting space from a homophobic pastor who called for the execution of gay people. While Cracker Barrel is far from perfect, they’ve come a long way. Plus they have old timey candy and pretty good biscuits. 

  • Hope: Support Lisa Keating for school board

  • Cat: My bday gift and send it inter-office mail

  • Cal-Jean: put up signage about being open and affirming to all families

Ep. 47: Parenting While White

EQ: What should white parents do to equip their children to understand the functions of race in order to combat racism?

Guest: Malia Jacobsen, author of the column “Beyond Tolerance” for ParentMap. Malia Jacobson is an award-winning health and parenting journalist and mom of three who contributes regularly to more than 120 national and regional publications and has written two books on sleep.

In this episode, we sit down with Malia Jacobson to talk about the importance of intentionally talking about race with white children. Highlights include:

  • Malia’s journalistic work at Parentmap, a resource for parents and families in the Puget Sound region.

  • How white parents respond and shape the conversation around gendered toys (specifically her work writing about toy guns).

  • How the new generation of parents has to come into talking about race in their own way (and not opting out).

  • How children are born into this racial environment and parents have to coach them to be ready (Nurture Shock--the environment IS the lesson).

Do Your Fudging Homework:

Ep. 43: We’re in the Fire: On Teacher Diversity & Genuine Equity

EQ: What role does teacher training play in the health of our schools and the future of the teaching profession?

Guest: Tamar Krames, 2006 MIT grad, Art/ELL teacher, OSPI, currently adjunct faculty for the Master’s in Teaching at Evergreen State College

The journey to teaching is different for everyone and our amazing guest Tamar focuses on what it means to have a transnational perspectives. We discuss the relationship between literacy and language, then transition to the problem of lack of “teacher diversity.” Tamar challenges us and our listeners to expand the way we think about this and the way that all CURRENT teachers can strive to address the issue of representation (we can add books, artwork, and broaden curriculum choice). She also reminds us that teacher diversity isn’t just race, but also about language (English) supremacy (but one way to “write and think smart”) and additional intersecting oppressions that keep amazing people out of the profession. Systemically, we need to consider who is seen as an expert and make our schools places that teachers want to stay (teacher of color retention).

We transition to the role of teacher prep programs in diversifying the field, supporting culturally responsive teaching practices, and the unspoken assumptions that being a person of color means you’d be able to work cross-culturally. There are programs intentionally working to recruit and support teachers of color. Some reading:

Guilty Favesies:

  • Annie: vegan milkshakes

  • Tamar: Star Trek

  • Hope: Hi-Chews

Do Your Fudging Homework:

Ep 27: Finding Joy and Giving Love: An Interview with Musician Stephanie Johnson


EQ: What’s awesome/challenging about being a women of color in the music industries?

Guest: Stephanie Anne Johnson of Tacoma (season 5 of The Voice). Born and raised in Tacoma. From a military family, Stephanie is a musician, performer and educator!

Ignore the star-struck awkwardness of the hosts during this interview with the amazing Stephanie Johnson. The way Stephanie talks about music, love, and relationships will have you reaching for your tissue box. Telling her “Tacoma Story”, Stephanie reminds listeners that each of us has a story that is uniquely our own and it is up to us to define and create these stories.

Related Links:

Guilty Favsies:

  • Hope--Expensive Vinegars
  • Annie--Swedish fish
  • Stephanie--the Kardashians

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Stephanie - Buy music directly from the artist; pick up a book and READ
  • Annie - Go to the Hilltop Street Fair
  • Hope - Check out Stephanie’s music on CD Baby

Ep. 25: No Finish Line for Ending White Supremacy

EQ: What are white people doing wrong this time and how do we make it right?

Guest: Danielle Stubblefield - Seattle-based  online and anti-racist frontline protester.

Danielle brings her expertise and insights to a number of topics, including:

  • White privilege,  white entitlement, and white terrorism, including the idea of “polite” white supremacy (no matter what, white people make sure the conversation stays civil and comfortable).
  • No finish line for white supremacy--keeping it 💯, we have so much work to do
  • We're all like dirty sponges--we can clean up a mess but we're tainted
  • White supremacy is the house you need to tear down---demolition phase (take a hammer and tear sh!* up)
  • Think about IMPACT, not just intent. Own our whiteness from the beginning, stumble through life and stop trying to be well-intended but causing damage.
  • How to not be a “teacher” (aka think you know everything and are source of all knowledge). Instead we need to think of teaching and learning as hand-in-hand
  • How to leverage white privilege for good and associated risk factors (Nordstrom comes up)
  • How what is safe for white people is not safe for others.
  • The impacts of racism on quality of life and health outcomes. Watch “How Racism Leads to Health Issues”

  • How to not worry about losing face with a stranger...fight dispassionately so it becomes your routine.

  • The fact that anti-blackness is real, and thoughts about why it exists.  Jealousy? Why are white people so mad? Maybe it's because they see something they don't have! There’s a twisted sense of community that racism fills. Read Debbie Irving Waking up White to get a better understanding of racism as boxes & ladders.

  • It takes guts to challenge Oprah...especially when you're on a cruise with her!

Do Your Fudging Homework:

Ep. 17: White Ladies, White Lies

Our EQ: Are lies ever really victimless and why do lies from white women have a disproportionate impact?

Lying is a familiar activity to everyone. Whether it’s little - I swear I didn’t take the last Girl Scout cookie, must have been you - or big - I swear I’m not cheating on you, we’re just friends - lies have consequences. This is especially true for White women who are believed innocent more than anyone else. White lady lies or hwhite lies have more detrimental consequences because of systemic racism and white supremacy. Urban Dictionary defines a white lie as “lies that white people have told others to make their self look righteous”
Famous white ladies who lied:

Timeless or Terrible:


Do Your Fudging Homework:

Ep. 13: The Environment Won’t Save Itself

Our EQ: How is the fight for environmental justice influenced by race and class?

Guests: Krystal Kyer & Melissa Malott

Environmental advocates Krystal (Puyallup Watershed Initiative) and Melissa (Citizens for a Healthy Bay) come by to talk about environmental justice, the disproportionate effects of industrial pollution on poor communities, and the environmental organizations working to keep Tacoma healthy. Other topics include:

  • The history of the environmental movement, including the creation of the National Parks by the white leisure class
  • The gatekeeping of the environmental movement by electric-car driving NIMBYs and how to take it back
  • The importance of urban trees!
  • Concerns about the Trump administration’s unwillingness and/or inability to understand science.
  • Find an environmental topic that you’re passionate about and work on it!  You’ll only stick with it if you’re heart’s in it.
  • Other things referenced in the episode:

** Since this recording, Kenny Coble was hired by Citizens for a Healthy Bay's new Environmental Justice Program

Do Your Fudging Homework:

  • Krystal: See Hope’s note about Green Drinks Tacoma!
  • Melissa: Buy reused and reusable stuff - don’t buy new stuff! We send so much to landfills and you shouldn’t need to wear fancy organic pants to be an environmentalist.
  • Annie: The EPA’s “Environmental Justice." PLUS Google “Zero Waste.”
  • Hope: Check out Green Drinks Tacoma - the first Thursday of the month.

Ep. 11: More than a Flip Book: Interracial Relationships

Our EQ: How can we as white people be more supportive of and less basic about our friends in interracial relationships?

Guests: Anne Jones and Jamika Scott

The conversation meanders from what we love about Tacoma to joys and challenges of being in an interracial relationship to concerns about introducing significant others to family and unique experiences raising kids. It takes effort to get out of our bubbles and expose ourselves to others who are different from us. As Anne says, “If it’s not in your day-to-day, make a concerted effort” to interact with people who are different than you.  Things are moving, even if slowly.

Other topics include:

  • The peculiarities of Montana (the “You Do You” state).
  • Some challenges of raising interracial children
  • Intent vs. Impact of our words and actions
  • Supporting loved ones even when you can’t fully empathize with their experience

Do Your Fudging Homework

  • Anne: Deliberately expose your kids to diverse experiences and raise them to be kind.
  • Jemika: Watch Save the Last Dance and educate yourself about issues affecting POCs and not expecting them to educate you.
  • Annie: go on Oyez.org and read all about Loving vs. Virginia, the landmark Supreme Court case that ended state bans on interracial marriage and relationships.
  • Hope: Aziz Ansari’s Modern Romance, The Lovings: an Intimate Portrait, Multiracial Media, and #WhiteBae .

Episode 3: Seeing, Being Seen, and the Panopticon of Life

Our essential question is: What does race, gender, and class  have to do with seeing and being seen?

This episode Annie & Hope are joined by two specials guests Tacoma personality Bernadette Ray and business woman Soneya Lund of the Saol Salon in Yakima. From racial coming outs to deconstructing white beauty standards, the ladies ring the “Shame Bell” on ridiculous standards that society tries to hold us to. These honesty, raw, and personal stories of the womanhood will touch you.

Today’s pop critical theory is the metaphor of the panopticon, originally conceived by white dude political philosopher Jeremy Bentham and his brother.  It’s basically a round prison so the guards in the middle can see prisoners, but the prisoners don’t know when OR IF they’re being seen.  Remember - it’s a metaphor!  But it was once built as an actual prison! What’s this have to do with us as women? As white, black, and brown women? How do (sometimes insidious) standards of beauty and conduct keep us in check?


Timeless or Terrible:

Do Your Fudging Homework:  

  • Hope: 2 Dope Queens comprised of Phoebe Robinson who wrote You Can’t Touch My Hair and Jessica William who has a new show The Incredible Jessica James on Netflix
  • Annie: Go Google image search Robert K. Merton’s “deviance typology,” then go down the sociology of deviant behavior rabbit hole on Wikipedia.  Spend a little time thinking about your own deviance #winkyface
  • Bernadette: give an authentic compliment to a woman of color
  • Soneya: Go read Girl in Translation by Jean Kwok

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Episode 1: An Introduction

This episode of IWL is brought to you by cardigans, the uniform staple of interchangeable white ladies everywhere. Today’s essential question: what’s an IWL and why does it matter?

Annie & Hope discuss where the term “Interchangeable White Lady” comes from and what the challenge is for white female teachers working with diverse students. The term original defined as “smiling, 20-something in her Target cardigan standing in front of a Smartboard” in Hope’s blog post The Interchangeable White Lady: An Introduction. In actuality, this label refers to the way students view their teachers. The concept was created in the context that 80% of educators are white women, teaching students of color (stats vary depending on source). Student perception is key. Relationships are crucial. White female teachers need to consider how students perceive them and accept the challenge this creates. It's a challenge to:

  1. To teach in a culturally responsive way based on the students before us.
  2. To view our instruction through the lens of traditionally marginalized youth.
  3. To distinguish ourselves as allies in the fight against institutional racism as we equip young men and women through the power of education.

Annie explains her own reactions to being an IWL. Paraphrases Roxanne Gay’s idea that you don’t need to apologize for being born white or wealthy, but to acknowledge how those traits are favored in society and how they make your movement through life different and often easier (and how you should use that privilege to help others move more easily).  Annie also shared her deep, fangirl-like appreciation for the illustrious and fabulous Mary Yu.

Timeless or Terrible: Annie and Hope weigh in on the staples of interchangeable white women everywhere. Today’s topics:

Ugg Boots

Ugg Boots

LuLaroe Leggings

LuLaroe Leggings

Kombucha w/ the mother

Kombucha w/ the mother

Do Your Fudging Homework: Go read Jeff Raikes’ article “Color-Blindness Is a Cop-Out” and “Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack” by Peggy McIntosh.

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